fully bolted with BNR3 problems...

[Kevin_172]

Hi all!

So im from the UK and have a mazda 3 MPS. recently fitted a bnr3 to the car and a few other bits too

mod list at the moment is

BNR s3 turbo
3 Bar Map Sensor
3 Port boost controller
HPFP internals
Sure sidewinder
Sure 3" maf housing
GT2 Pro FMIC
3" Catless Downpipe
3" 2nd Decat
Jetex Cat back
At the moment im running a Cobb AP but will be moving to Versa as i won the cable and licence in a raffle

So had 3 bar, FMIC, 3 port, maf housing, BNR3, DP and Decat fitted and since then i had major boost creep. tried running the turbo at just spring pressure (vac hose from turbo housing the actuator) got boost cut 24.4psi...

so we did a vac test and the actuator on the BNR wasnt fully opening till 24psi.. so replaced that with a turbosmart IWG actuator. fully open now at 16 psi!

Took car out for a test drive and im hitting 24psi on just spring pressure and the turbo isnt spooling till 4 - 4.5k RPM...

Now i see people talking about porting the wastegate but i hear the housing is quite week..

will adding a cat to where the 2nd cat would have been help?

what else can i try? it seems im the only person in the UK to be suffering Boost creep on a BNR s3 fully catless :/

your help will be greatly appreciated!

[cshunter]

Adding a cat would be your best bet.
I am still on the ko4 but I had to add a cat to resolve my creep issues.

Sent from my Evil Nexus 5

[atvfreek]

I would definitely start by adding a cat. That usually fixes most creep issues on the BNR

[JgamB]

This is why even with the new hot side casting / IWG I will be running stock DP. No creep hopefully.

[Code Monkey]

I am having this cat welded into my cp-e DP where the 2nd cat was. Do not weld it in the upper part close to the turbo, the heat will kill the cat in no time.

[Kevin_172]

you wont creep with a stock DP.. its more restrictive than most ppls wives

[ChimmyChong]

What 3 port are you running and hose size?
What are your WGDC% values you are targeting?
What are your WGDC% values you are hitting in your logs?

LEC/BEC tables?
Is it pretty cold where you are? I forgot the table name but it scales the WGDC depending on BoostTemps.

I'm running a similar setup minus the FMIC and Catback. No creep here for me. Just a nice flat boost curve

[Kevin_172]

WGDC have all been zeroed.. im actually not running the 3 port at the moment to see if it was mechanical boost creep.. which it seems it is. im just running spring pressure off the turbo housing to the actuator.

obviously keeping it on 3 port with zeroed WGDC is gonna be the same thing but only did this to check the 3 port wasnt the problem..

im running Total MPS's 3 post EBCS

[ChimmyChong]

I assume you are running a hose off the turbo (Boost source) straight to the IWG with no leaking hose?

NVM.. just read your reply above lol

[Kevin_172]

Originally Posted by ChimmyChong I assume you are running a hose off the turbo (Boost source) straight to the IWG with no leaking hose?

yep. checked hose and thats fine.

[manila]

Why would you switch from an AP to Versatune?

[Kevin_172]

Because I won VT.. It was free! I can sell the cobb :-)

[manila]

Originally Posted by Kevin_172 Because I won VT.. It was free! I can sell the cobb :-)

Trust me...you want to keep the COBB AP and sell the Versatune.

[skiptowncat]

Originally Posted by manila Trust me...you want to keep the COBB AP and sell the Versatune.

You sure about that?


Versatune review + shift stutter fix

[jm211]

Originally Posted by skiptowncat You sure about that? Versatune review + shift stutter fix

The issue with Speeds is that there is no competitor with the AP, until Veraatune. Reason why shit is so slow at coming out nowadays with Cobb.

[Kevin_172]

I have a v2 not a 3. I have guages to watch boost. Afr and oil temp. And we have awsome tuners with VT also. The VT is locked to my car.. Can't sell it on.

[TiGraySpeed6]

Versatune is fine tuning software- don't sweat it, specially at the price you got it for!

The TS IWGA that you have- Are you using the mazda specific one with the correct arm for the stock mazda/bnr hotside (TS-0610-1072)? you mentioned that it's opening at 16psi when tested by hand, but the 1072 should crack at 7. Have you verified the installed springs- should be a red spring, with a second gray spring inside it, to get 16 (11 + 5), while purple is the standard 7 psi spring

If not, you are probably fighting a hardware issue with the WG door, or the aligment.

[Kevin_172]

Total mps set the spring pressure and set the wastegate arm up for me. So I would hope that it's setup correct! Will be taking turbo off I think to check everything over.

my tuner has sent me a new tune for now reducing throttle plate at high rpm to combat some of the creep :-)

Thanks all for the help so far! Will keep you updated :-D

[Lex]

The misconception with the wastegate actuator is that it must open fully on a test bench at the rate psi. This is not the case. When it is in the car it has exhaust pressure acting against it, not just boost so the system is quite a bit more complex.

It sounds like the upgraded actuator opens too early killing some of the boost response.

Most IWG turbos will creep with no cats installed.

However they do so especially when cold. So it may creep to 25psi at 30*F but it will creep to 22-23psi at 70*F ambient temps. So you have to decide what is reasonable for your setup and fuel octane available.

If the creep level is not acceptable and you have lots of cold weather you can restrict flow on the exhaust (cat as discussed) or on the intake by installing a smaller intake. A good option might be to install a removable catted pipe in the winter and a catless testpipe in the summer.

[TiGraySpeed6]

Accurate, but my point is that if his shop bolted an off the shelf part on his turbo with a spring pressure of 7 and it's cracking at 16ish, there's an issue there that should be resolved.

Considering that the original WGA was quite a bit off as well may indicate that the problem isn't the WGA.

It's much easier to double check & verify that the WGA was sprung for, and is opening at, a specific pressure then it is would be to swap in a catted DP, especially if the OP is considering putting the OEM DP back.

[Kevin_172]

oem DP wont be going back on that's for sure. I will be getting a 200cel cat welded into the 2nd cat position.

At the moment its 5 - 8deg C here so im guessing that's why im creeping at the
moment.

I will be taking it somewhere that can have a look at the wastegate that's installed and if need be tubro off to inspect. its only been on about 2 months and have had problems since day one with it..

again thanks for all the replys guys!

oh I was out logging tonight as my tuner sent me a new tune!

log 12 is just running spring pressure no EBCS but its still showing WGDC in the log???

log 13 is with the 3 port all connected up again.

tuner is closing the throttle plate slightly at higher RPM's to help combat the creep. How dose it look?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Kevin_172 oem DP wont be going back on that's for sure. I will be getting a 200cel cat welded into the 2nd cat position. At the moment its 5 - 8deg C here so im guessing that's why im creeping at the moment. I will be taking it somewhere that can have a look at the wastegate that's installed and if need be tubro off to inspect. its only been on about 2 months and have had problems since day one with it.. again thanks for all the replys guys! oh I was out logging tonight as my tuner sent me a new tune! log 12 is just running spring pressure no EBCS but its still showing WGDC in the log??? log 13 is with the 3 port all connected up again. tuner is closing the throttle plate slightly at higher RPM's to help combat the creep. How dose it look?

You can see that the WG is probably very soft or opened very early and then creep takes over in the higher RPMs.

[Kevin_172]

Anyone able to have a look at the logs and tell me if all looks OK. I know the turbo is spooling really late but needing to tweet tune :-)