400 WHP - what's missing?

[Speedie6]

So, before I started my BT build, I made some posts, and got lots of good input, in a thread that unfortunately was lost. The guy from CPE, (Jason?) who is no longer there I don't think, suggested that I could get 400 WHP, 425 at the outside, with a GT3071 with .83 AR.

Of course that wasn't a promise, but, what was supposed to be possible. I assume that was with the expectation of using all CPE parts, CPE Standback/tuning, HPFP, MAF, FMIC, maybe even their unreleased manifold. My parts list is a bit different, which I'll list in a moment. But 400 WHP was still the hoped for goal. But, my car is at Cobb Tuning. And, they said it was about 350 WHP. Not bad, but, still quite a bit away from the 400 to 425 that Jason mentioned.

So, as far as equipment, what I've got is:

GT3071 .83 AR
Steedspeed manifold with Tial EWG
CPE FMIC
3" ATP MAF
PTP fuel pump
Cobb AP/tuning
CP pistons
Pauter Rods
ARP head studs
CPE DP hacked to have V-band
GHL exhaust
CPE turbo inlet pipe

One thing that Cobb said was that it was running out of fuel at the top end. I'm running the PTP fuel pump. Would the CPE have enough juice to make the extra distance? I will of course get SilverDemon's fuel rail when it is available, but, I thought Jason was seeing the 400 numbers without such a part.

Now, some say I fucked up going with the CPE FMIC, that it is too small. So, maybe that is playing a part. Though presumably that is what Jason was envisioning.

Or, perhaps Jason was just full of shit, I don't know. At any rate, perhaps I should forget what he said, but, the basic question still stands, what is missing to get to 400 WHP?

[oh10speed3]

NOS

[Nitr0EngiE]

i see the problem ptp fuel pump

no turbo back ?????

btw i hope u got another block ready for when u blow pushing 350+, 400+ requires forged block

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE i see the problem ptp fuel pump no turbo back ????? btw i hope u got another block ready for when u blow pushing 350+, 400+ requires forged block

I guess I should've listed the rest of the parts:

CP pistons
Pauter Rods
CPE DP hacked to have V-band
GHL exhaust
CPE turbo inlet pipe

[rigor]

3076r
but you hpfp must be laying down that is weird mine is the ptp internals and i hold 1750


what dyno?
that's about right for a 3071

[turd burglar]

3" maf might be a problem, thats why guys are running 3.25 for 400+

[rigor]

have them check your maf volts if your close to 4.9 its time for a bigger maf

[Cataphract_40]

No DP = No Stage 2 + AP maps = No 400

[rigor]

true but why is he running out of fuel too fat? or bad pump

[Cataphract_40]

I wouldn't put it past the PTP failpumps

[mroclimbr]

Originally Posted by Cataphract_40 I wouldn't put it past the PTP failpumps

Haltech has a thread or whatever where the guy that sold ptp is fixing everything that anyone purchased from ptp. He seems to be determined and openly admits to fp=fail for alot of people. Bad batch or whatever, might be worth the time. Some people are swearing by their ptp's.

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by mroclimbr Haltech has a thread or whatever where the guy that sold ptp is fixing everything that anyone purchased from ptp. He seems to be determined and openly admits to fp=fail for alot of people. Bad batch or whatever, might be worth the time. Some people are swearing by their ptp's.

At this time, it appears I'm not having any problem with my PTP pump. For some reason, the Cobb manager at first told me that I was running out of fuel at the top end, but, the tuner contradicted that and said no fuel problems. He said that probably if I pushed any more power, I might need to consider a bigger pump in the tank.

[rigor]

afr?

[802MS3]

so they are actively tuning the car on the dyno? how much timing are you adding near the top? AFR? You should be good with mid 12's, maybe leaner if you want. bump up your fuel pressure as much as possible and grab the relief valve asap so you can run 2000+ psi.

i aint no expert though, lol.

[Erich]

Originally Posted by opt_ms3 so they are actively tuning the car on the dyno? how much timing are you adding near the top? AFR? You should be good with mid 12's, maybe leaner if you want. bump up your fuel pressure as much as possible and grab the relief valve asap so you can run 2000+ psi. i aint no expert though, lol.

Just make sure not to bump it past 2070 PSI. Bad things will happen.

[802MS3]

Originally Posted by Erich Just make sure not to bump it past 2070 PSI. Bad things will happen.

esplain. unless it has been covered in another thread. are you running the stock injector seals?

[Erich]

Originally Posted by opt_ms3 esplain. unless it has been covered in another thread. are you running the stock injector seals?

The ECU is only capable of reading up to ~2073 on the stock fuel pressure sensor. So when you set it over that, you are setting it to a pressure the ECU will never see. You go to 2075 the ECU still sees ~2073. So the ECU thinks it needs to give more fuel. The fuel pressure climbs rapidly, faster then the RV can purge since the pump is going full bore, and you end up with dangerous pressures. On my car the pressures got high enough to impede the opening of the injectors.

[Speedie6]

Well, so far, the suggestions have been:

3076 vs 3071: When I was scoping this out, though I could've got bad info, but Jason suggested that a 3076 would be in the 450 to 475 WHP, but, he suggested the 3071 would be more fun for street as it spools quicker. So, that is why I went with 3071.

PTP pump: Perhaps. I'll have to get some logs.

MAF: Okay, I guess I'll order up a larger MAF. Of course a retune. What I'll probably do is, try to figure out what I need for fueling, get the bigger MAF, and re-tune.

Question about the MAF: Since I have the CPE inlet pipe, which is only 3", does that limit the ability of a larger MAF? Should the inlet be increased to 3.25" or 3.5"?

Rigor asked the afr, well, I'll have to get some logs. I don't know anything about tuning, but, I would presume Cobb tuned it for proper afr.

[madvillain]

Christ guys, you need Vtak. You're not going anywhere without it.

[rigor]

well if it is rich th fp will drop, as you lean it out it will come up but it depends how low is low?

you can hit 400 with that turbo but it will be close to maxed!

are you dynoing on the heart breaker? mustang

[driver311]

pump is not the reason his car isnt making power. Fuckin come on! Could be many reasons but unless the pump is not holding pressure its not why.

[rigor]

they said fp gone upper rpms

[forcedinduktion]

meth

[rigor]

im going to say no one has made 400 on a mustang dyno yet!
one rumored to but.?.? pixy dust

dyno jet yes

+ awd is 20 horse

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by madvillain Christ guys, you need Vtak. You're not going anywhere without it.

Vtak?

Originally Posted by driver311 pump is not the reason his car isnt making power. Fuckin come on! Could be many reasons but unless the pump is not holding pressure its not why.

Cobb said it was running out of fuel at top end.

Originally Posted by rigor im going to say no one has made 400 on a mustang dyno yet! one rumored to but.?.? pixy dust dyno jet yes

No idea what dyno Cobb has.

[rigor]

it is a mustang awd dyno, they read low unless
it is calibrated different, im no # cruncher, someone else would have to chime in to tell you what 350 would be on a dyno jet, witch is what most people here dyno on

i dream of 400 on a mustang just sayin

[rodrigo]

25 psi + do7 pure meth and u will do fine

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by lenny127 25 psi + do7 pure meth and u will do fine

The Cobb tuner says he's actually against meth. In his view, to get power from meth, you have to tune for meth. But if you tune for meth and your meth runs out, you fry your motor. You can get failsafe systems, but, he didn't think he trusted them enough to risk a motor on it.

[Docnox]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 The Cobb tuner says he's actually against meth. In his view, to get power from meth, you have to tune for meth. But if you tune for meth and your meth runs out, you fry your motor. You can get failsafe systems, but, he didn't think he trusted them enough to risk a motor on it.

IF your meth runs out is the key, just pay attention to it and your golden. Get a big 2.5gallon tank if you're that worried about running out. When you're that heavily modded you have to pay attention to everything anyway, it's not gonna kill you to check your meth tank and make sure it's not bone before you go out on a tear.

[X-Man]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 The Cobb tuner says he's actually against meth. In his view, to get power from meth, you have to tune for meth. But if you tune for meth and your meth runs out, you fry your motor. You can get failsafe systems, but, he didn't think he trusted them enough to risk a motor on it.

Get an aquamist system (i have one) If you run out of fluid it changes maps. If a nozzle is clogged, it changes maps... If you want to switch the wi of, it changes maps...

And dont run it on meth, water... Meth is more of an octane booster, and you dont need that. Run it on water to avoid knock. And a cpe fuel pump.

But thats just me...

[jracer]

I think cobb uses mustang dyno's

[mason]

yeah, 3071 should get you to 400whp, i think cobb does use a mustang, so you prolly are around 400 on a dj

[spnkr21]

How much boost are you running? You can make 400 with a 3071 but there is something else going on. We need more info.

[rigor]

see if you can get a data log off the ap

[spnkr21]

You don't need meth to get 400 but it does make it easier. The CPE intercooler is fine for that 3071 I have the same thing.
How far have they pushed the timing?
How much boost?
Any injector seal problems?
Any misfire problems?
You can get 400 with a 3071 you just don't have all the pieces to the puzzle yet.
And it was probably Jake from CPE you're thinking about. Trust me he didn't lead you in the wrong direction.

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by spnkr21 And it was probably Jake from CPE you're thinking about. Trust me he didn't lead you in the wrong direction.

Yeah, Jake, I knew it was J A something... LOL...

Originally Posted by spnkr21 You don't need meth to get 400 but it does make it easier. The CPE intercooler is fine for that 3071 I have the same thing. How far have they pushed the timing? How much boost? Any injector seal problems? Any misfire problems? You can get 400 with a 3071 you just don't have all the pieces to the puzzle yet.

I don't know the answers to these things. When I get the car back, I'll run some logs.

I actually bought a set of PTP v2 seals, but, never installed them. I've decided to wait until the Silver/CPE set comes out. I hope the fuel rail is out about the same time and I can do that at once. And the bigger MAF.

[senor blanco ms3]

their dyno is mustang dyno and is pretty fair. some of the other mustangs in the area read lower and the dynojets read almost 20hp higher.

i think 400whp is pretty adventurous in the ms6. i don't know why people get so focused on a number. it's like when girls try to weigh a certain weight regardless of what's right for their height.

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by senor blanco ms3 i don't know why people get so focused on a number. it's like when girls try to weigh a certain weight regardless of what's right for their height.

Well, here's my answer. And, well, admittedly, not the most intellectually satisfying answers, but here they are.

1. I've overspent on this car. Its always been "one more thing" and the "one more thing" keeps running up the tab. I want to feel like I got something for my fucking money.
2. Bragging rights. I want to say, "I got 400 AWD WHP, bitches!"

[jack_hammer]

Originally Posted by jracer 400 whp speed6 would be sweeeet !

doesn't djuosnteisn have one?

Originally Posted by Speedie6 Well, here's my answer. And, well, admittedly, not the most intellectually satisfying answers, but here they are. 1. I've overspent on this car. Its always been "one more thing" and the "one more thing" keeps running up the tab. I want to feel like I got something for my fucking money. 2. Bragging rights. I want to say, "I got 400 AWD WHP, bitches!"

dude, you're asking for trouble here. fighting with your car sucks the joy of it. what happens if/when you get 400whp, then? it'll be anticlimactic and you'll feel hollow and empty. my $0.02.

[ANMSPD3]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 Well, here's my answer. And, well, admittedly, not the most intellectually satisfying answers, but here they are. 1. I've overspent on this car. Its always been "one more thing" and the "one more thing" keeps running up the tab. I want to feel like I got something for my fucking money. 2. Bragging rights. I want to say, "I got 400 AWD WHP, bitches!"

Go to a dyno jet then .. should see it there.