Billet k04 Comp wheel upgrade!

[mazdafreak]

Well I took the plunge after talking to my turbo guy thats local to me and who also assembled my bottom end for my ms3 and said this would be a nice lil upgrade for the k04 to make just a lil bit more power for me. Its a billet comp wheel, 50x65mm.....Says its good for 350-375 hp.


I have pushed my stock turbo to ~25lbs with timing maxed out on the dyno on 100% E85 with the help of clint tuning it for me last yr.....Had the car dynode @ 332whp and 390wtq.


So we'll see if I can push it over 350whp this time around with a built 11:1 CR bottom end now........I am sending the turbo out to my guy for the machine work which will also get a full rebuild/rebalance with a upgraded 360 degree thrust bearing and step gap piston ring.....All in all, this 'reworked k04' as you will, is costing me give or take $300, I have a hook up on machine work.

[Vansquish]

Which one did you get? I've been thinking about doing turbo build based on the OE K04 as well, and this would be a pretty easy (and super cheap) way to go.

[mazdafreak]

Originally Posted by Vansquish Which one did you get? I've been thinking about doing turbo build based on the OE K04 as well, and this would be a pretty easy (and super cheap) way to go.

50x65mm billet wheel.

[dale_gribble]

Looks like a ninja star. Sub'd.

[WetzMS3]

Can't wait to see the results.

[Lex]

Are the dimensions any different from stock? The OEM housing limits the inducer dimensions.

The design of the wheel also looks the same as OEM so if the size is also identical flow will be the same given the machining is good. Billet wheels will be lighter and promote spool but this is less so on the already light compressor wheel and more so on the exhaust turbine wheel.

EDIT: Looks like the wheel is bigger and you're machining the compressor housing to accept it. You will see gains here. Hope it won't surge

[mazdafreak]

And this is what the turbo will be mounted too.....Fully bolted, built 11:1CR bottom end...((Don't mind the stock bpv, I have a synapse bpv going on as we speak))

[manila]

SUBB'D
What are your thoughts on running this with a stock block?
I see that your motor is built.

[mazdafreak]

Originally Posted by Lex Are the dimensions any different from stock? The OEM housing limits the inducer dimensions. The design of the wheel also looks the same as OEM so if the size is also identical flow will be the same given the machining is good. Billet wheels will be lighter and promote spool but this is less so on the already light compressor wheel and more so on the exhaust turbine wheel.

Its a k04 billet wheel.....Buts its a 50x65mm wheel......Comp housing obv has to get machined.....But the stock turbo comp wheel is 43m by 56mm....So its a slightly bigger upgraded wheel.....Even if I only make like 5-10hp, that's alright, cost me less than $300 for a lil more power and torque. If I was spending $500+, itd be a different story lol

[WetzMS3]

Who makes that wheel? It doesn't quite look like the Turbolabs wheel. Kinda looks like a GTX wheel, but I can't tell.

[mazdafreak]

Originally Posted by manila SUBB'D What are your thoughts on running this with a stock block? I see that your motor is built.

I don't see a problem, just all depends how the tune is, how much torque, are u running e85, meth etc.



I have already maxed the k04 out at 332whp and 390wtq on stock block, which is a lot of torque for a stock bottom end.......but tune was set up to not have like full boost at such low rpms...... I rebuilt bottom end for I don't blow it up with all the torque just to be safe cause I planned on going BT later down the road.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by mazdafreak Its a k04 billet wheel.....Buts its a 50x65mm wheel......Comp housing obv has to get machined.....But the stock turbo comp wheel is 43m by 56mm....So its a slightly bigger upgraded wheel.....Even if I only make like 5-10hp, that's alright, cost me less than $300 for a lil more power and torque. If I was spending $500+, itd be a different story lol

With that size difference you will see more power than that. Only thing to watch for is surge since the comp wheel will now deliver more air at the same rotational speed as before.

[mazdafreak]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 Who makes that wheel? It doesn't quite look like the Turbolabs wheel. Kinda looks like a GTX wheel, but I can't tell.

I got the wheel through turbolab, but I wasn't having them do the work cause they are super sketchy when I called them and talked about it all. I have my guy to do it and will be cheaper....They didn't say anything about a warranty, did say anything about rebuilding the turbo or anything....All they were telling me was $350 to install the wheel, that was it. I got the wheel, rebuild kit with upgraded thrust washer etc and having machine work for right around $300.


Only different is for some reason they sent me this wheel with the back cut flat. which sucks. but its w.e

Originally Posted by Lex With that size difference you will see more power than that. Only thing to watch for is surge since the comp wheel will now deliver more air at the same rotational speed as before.

Is there anything I can do to prevent the surge?

[manila]

Originally Posted by mazdafreak I don't see a problem, just all depends how the tune is, how much torque, are u running e85, meth etc. I have already maxed the k04 out at 332whp and 390wtq on stock block, which is a lot of torque for a stock bottom end.......but tune was set up to not have like full boost at such low rpms...... I rebuilt bottom end for I don't blow it up with all the torque just to be safe cause I planned on going BT later down the road.

Thanks for the input.
I haave a feeling you'll wanna go bigger_____That's what she said

[mazdafreak]

Yeah, I already want to go bigger, but I built the bottom end this yr, not looking to spend more money cause my setup will be a precision turbo.

[dead-zone]

Cool Shawn, let me know how it works out so i can do the same with my turbo :-) :-) :-)

[Lex]

For surge, you will hear it if it's the case and if you do you might have to limit boost in those RPM regions.

[helmetface]

Listen for this, if you hear it..you'll know...

[mazdafreak]

I guess we will see what happens! Sending turbo out to my guy for machine work tomorrow, so probably won't have it installed till late the following week week or so.

[Rich990]

in for good results.

got a link for that comp wheel?

[mazdafreak]

Originally Posted by Rich990 in for good results. got a link for that comp wheel?

I got the wheel through turbo lab. They also had it on ebay.

[mazdafreak]

Well i sent the turbo out to my guy....So im hoping to have it late next week or early the following week.

@rfinkle2; is going to be tuning the car!! We're gonna finalize it on the dyno, so we'll see what i can finally push out of the turbo now! My last dyno tune i had i made on 100% E85 was 332whp;390wtq.... So we shall see

[Voltwings]

Really wanting to see before / after dyno's. We have a local turbo shop thats been pushing billit wheel upgrades, and the prices arent far off what you've been mentioning.

[mazdafreak]

Hmmm, I def would, but don't have extra money for more dyno time........ if rob wants to spend the extra time, just incase the billet wheel k04 needs retuning for some reason, ill do a before/after results. That's up to him. Myself would rather just have it all done at one time. Either way works tho.


I have my before results on dyno. Only difference now is 11:1CR bottom end and 3.5" intake w/ 3 port ebcs.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by mazdafreak Hmmm, I def would, but don't have extra money for more dyno time........ if rob wants to spend the extra time, just incase the billet wheel k04 needs retuning for some reason, ill do a before/after results. That's up to him. Myself would rather just have it all done at one time. Either way works tho. I have my before results on dyno. Only difference now is 11:1CR bottom end and 3.5" intake w/ 3 port ebcs.

I'll take some Decent Vd's / logs with a grain of salt too I suppose, its all the same. Although I suppose that compression change is going to throw a wrench in things ... oh wells.

[mazdafreak]

Like I said, all up to rfrinkle if he doesn't mind having to tweak map/start all over incase the k04 with billet wheel changes stuff.

I don't mind before and after. We'll let rob answer if he wants too lol

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by Lex For surge, you will hear it if it's the case and if you do you might have to limit boost in those RPM regions.

Do you expect it could surge because of the small size of the turbine wheel vs this new large compressor wheel

by the way the stock inducer size was looking more close to 45mm on my speed3 and 42mm for the cx7. But 5mm in and 9mm out is a huge change !

I'm in a hurry to read about the results!



11:1 CR for a turbo engine isn't a little bit abusive ? Is it a dayly drive ?

[mazdafreak]

No, I don't think its abusive. And no, its not daily driven and doesn't see rain or snow.


Plus I run 100% E85.

I'm gonna have a 100% E tune and Racegas dyno results if rfrinkle loves me enough to do two tunes lol.

[phate]

Low compression is low

[Micha]

Originally Posted by phate Low compression is low

Showoff.

[mazdafreak]

Well lower than yours but higher than most!

[Jeff23spl]

Yes very low CR is slow and higher CR is good for efficiency but above 10 it is usually for low stroke high rev engine or at least for cam with higher duration and lift...Do you plan something it this area ?

In a long stroke like ours, the torque you get with 11:1 CR shoud be awesome? But what about at higher rpm ? With the stock K04 does it fell like a Turbo Diesel ?

Probably no lag at all? but you would always need high octane gaz and maybe limit your max boost level ?
very low CR sucks like i used to drive a 7.8:1 2.0l (4G63T) Talon awd and you almost need boost to move the car. Without, it fell like 25hp and die when you release the clutch too fast...

[Snyeed]

subbed for results, go ewg!

[mazdafreak]

Still waiting on turbo to be done.


Looks like we may be going with an ewg on this k04 and run a 4-port ebcs.

[phate]

Your comparison of wheels is essentially invalidated if you switch to an EWG. It should allow for more top end power, because you are able to bleed off some of that backpressure that I'm sure the K04 creates.

[Jeff23spl]

I was curious about 1 thing and if i didn't switch to GT28, i would have installed something to read the wastegate actuator rod position during WOT conditions when i call 100% of WG duty to see if the WG is still completly closed or open because of exaust gaz pressure on the flap...

In the case where the WGA remain closed, having an internal or external WG wouldn't make any difference?

If it opens a little, the external WG could help or maybe a 3 way EBC to unload the WG spring completly....

I was about to install a linear potentiometer on the WGA rod to transmit a voltage signal according to the rod position but i switched to GT28 first...

By the way, every turbo create exaust restriction, it is the reason why 15psi with a K04 make less flow than a 15psi with a GT3582r....But i don't think the top end power is only a small turbo related issue. If you look at manny dyno graph of BT users, even if boost remain constant to redline, the power drop at almost the same RPM level as it doest with K04...

[StayBroke]

Really cant wait to see this.

When i spoke to turbolab they said they where rebuilding my k04, machine the housing, install the wheel, and then balance the center section.

[amoosenamedhank]

Originally Posted by phate Your comparison of wheels is essentially invalidated if you switch to an EWG. It should allow for more top end power, because you are able to bleed off some of that backpressure that I'm sure the K04 creates.

If he shows appreciable gains, at least we'll know his solution as a whole works. You might not know what was the compressor wheel, and what effects the EWG had.... but it's a low cost solution overall.

[mazdafreak]

Well we/or u kno that my car was done at 332whp. I don't see any k04 ever going over 340whp, unless happy dyno.


All I'm looking at is if I can make over what I did last yr with billet wheel, ewg will just hopefully help up top like u said. Results should give a good idea what turbo is capable of. Just trying to get it all done before all this cold weather moves in!



I just don't kno what wastegate @rfinkle2; wants me to run, since he doesnt like messaging me back through email haha , so I can order all those parts

[lilred]

Busy man is busy, man. Lol



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