How to e85

[Jkelley]

Steps? New fuel lines? Bigger injectors?

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Jkelley Steps? New fuel lines? Bigger injectors?

No need for new fuel lines, and bigger injectors aren't available.

Going E85 requires only three things:
1. An upgraded HPFP or internals.
2. A COBB AP and either reading up on E85 diaries on here or working with other guys making tunes on 100% E85 (@phate and myself).
3. A set of brass balls. E85 on this platform is still new and isn't completely sorted out yet. You may run into hardware issues with the HPFP getting clogged or other issues.

This isn't an OTS bolt-on option just yet.

[phate]

3a should read: If you encounter problems, massive patience required.

But seriously, a tune is probably the most important aspect. If you just up and switch without tuning, you will likely fuck something up. You will lose power, and your car will hate you.

Secondly, if your car has a lot of miles, run some seafoam through the gas for a tank or two before making the switch.

Lastly, there is support here. Us E85'ers want nothing more than to see others who have the desire to succeed. The power gains on E85 are stupid. My recommended mod list goes something like this now: AP, E85, proper tune, who the fuck cares that's solid power already.

[kritz]

Be forewarned that this equation applies e85+MS3=Moar power.

[Jkelley]

So with my setup listed with the mods I have, I just need to retune?

Thanks for all your input guys... Also, with my mods.. Would I just fill her up with e85? Or do I go half and half or what?

[Bucker]

Originally Posted by Jkelley So with my setup listed with the mods I have, I just need to retune? Thanks for all your input guys... Also, with my mods.. Would I just fill her up with e85? Or do I go half and half or what?

Yessir!

[Jkelley]

Originally Posted by Bucker Yessir!

Fill up fully on e85 for my very first time? Or mix? Sorry I didn't know which one you were saying yes to

[Bucker]

Originally Posted by Jkelley Fill up fully on e85 for my very first time? Or mix? Sorry I didn't know which one you were saying yes to

Haha, replied via email.

My only hesitation before anyone jumps in is ensuring they know potential side effects

Before just filling it up a MAF scale should be done. 100% e85 will move your fueling like 30%, so thats a big change.

[Jkelley]

Wow.. And you can clean your hfpf correct? Like with sea foam?

[MSFer87]

Dude just do yourself a favor right now or prepare to rebuild your HPFP a couple times. Go ahead and read this (at least the majority so you have a rough idea what your getting yourself into) E85 Discussion - HPFP lubrication and Flow issues and congrats for considering this you are among a minority.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Bucker Haha, replied via email. My only hesitation before anyone jumps in is ensuring they know potential side effects Before just filling it up a MAF scale should be done. 100% e85 will move your fueling like 30%, so thats a big change.

Agreed on the side effects. Especially the issues we've been having lately with spill valves, and there is always the potential for a stuck injector.

My MAF had to be scaled up roughly 39%.

[LiEast]

Any. One run into a problem of running out of gas and not being able to find E85? I've been looking around and last week this deff would have happened to me lol

[JLee1469]

Yeah some prerequisite steps would be to have access to an E85 pump and/or have storage capabilities for it. Also make sure your car has no other issues whether it be CELs or anything mechanical. New set of tires wouldn't hurt either because you will lose traction in 3rd and possibly 4th.

[racingred]

I tell you...with all the work that I keenly follow by phate and the others, once the kinks are stored out, I will be jumping on. The only thing, us floridians need more E85! This involves something more than a gas tank at one or two gas stations that these stupid ass civics keep on gobbling up.

[Speed_j23]

You should run at least one can of seafoam in tha gas tank prior to filling up the first tank and you should have a new map ready to flash when you fill up. If your planning to do 100% then you just go straight E-85 there's no need to slightly go up.

[Jkelley]

Should I just do 1 can and gas tank? Sorry, I ask, because awhile a go I had a 2000 camaro that I seafoamed with 80k miles on it.. But I put half a can in engine oil crankcase, 1 in gas tank, and use the cleaner to clean out the TB. Needless to say it worked great but a couple weeks later, I predict that some of the gunk in the engine was loose and it got stuck underneath a lifter arm and caused my car to loose drastic power Nd make a clicking noise. After 10 mins of driving, it would loosen up and drive normal again, but I'd have to go through this a couple of times a week. Well now I'm the 2nd owner of the 08 ms3 I have now and it just made 62k. I don want the same problem.. But if I'm just to clean out the gas take, then I don't forsee that problem happening

[Jkelley]

Sorry to double post. I prepare to just tune on a 50% e85 and 50% 91 for reliability purposes.

[Speed_j23]

Yeah the seafoam in the gas tank is to clean out the gunk in the fuel system prior to E-85. After you finish the tank of seafoam you might want to pull your hpfp clean it and lube it before your first fill up. I didn't do that last step since I'm only running a 50/50 mix.

Now I have put seafoam in through the brake booster line twice and haven't had any problems, however that's a different topic.

[Jkelley]

Okay, I plan to seafoam the fuel tank once before my 50/50 mix, but I'm extremely hesitant to do crankcase in oil for 50-100 miles (sometimes i think it does more harm then good when breaking up all that gunk in the motor).

[Speed_j23]

Check the how to section there's a great Write up on how to do it via the brake booster line. It's no suppose to stay in there that long you just put it it and drive the car like you stole it until there's no more white smoke coming out the exhaust; then it's time for an oil change. That's how I do it. I'm gonna probably do it again before my next oil change; btw i'm at 92K.

[Enki]

If my experience is any indication, seafoam won't do shit to help with issues, but 50/50 mix will.

Edit: Disregard above; 50/50 doesn't clean shit.

[Cdone]

E85 is no joke Ive had it tuned on all my cars at least once or twice. And they all require generally the same attention. Either injectors, fuel rail, or retarding the timing. Just need to know the flow rate and stoich. And the gains are amazing.QUOTE=phate;1149460]3a should read: If you encounter problems, massive patience required.

But seriously, a tune is probably the most important aspect. If you just up and switch without tuning, you will likely fuck something up. You will lose power, and your car will hate you.

Secondly, if your car has a lot of miles, run some seafoam through the gas for a tank or two before making the switch.

Lastly, there is support here. Us E85'ers want nothing more than to see others who have the desire to succeed. The power gains on E85 are stupid. My recommended mod list goes something like this now: AP, E85, proper tune, who the fuck cares that's solid power already.[/QUOTE]

[2k4_8]

e85 discussion is mainly here...so here I am. I simply want to do this right. I am ordering AT FP internals, an AP, and a JBR RMM all at the same time. I want to switch to e47 and get a tune put on the car. I have read of all the gunk that is flushed into the HPFP and such. Being as my car has under 14k miles on it, will this likely be an issue? I will still run a can of sea foam, but I would rather not have to pull and rebuild the FP to clean it. Sorry, I have been around a while, but this concept is still new to the forum and even more new to me. I am somewhat leery of this, but I will have someone competent tune it so that I don't fuck anything up. I have a local E station, although there is only one in the area. One of my concerns is that I may have to occasionally fill with 91 if I go on a trip or something....and I read that switching back and forth is bad (it didn't say if that was just 100% E back to 91 or if it's ok if just just mix. Don't hesitate to point me somewhere where all this is readily available...I'm just fine with reading, just haven't found exactly what I need yet.

Game plan is as follows. Get parts next week. Install RMM, seafoam in tank and also seafoam motor at the same time since I will be due for an oil change. Install FP internals and marry AP, do maf cal. on next tank of fuel and start on an e-tune, get dyno tuned...plan for new tires? Is that pretty much how this all works?

TL;DR;NCE: See 2 lines above ---^

[phate]

Originally Posted by 2k4_8 e85 discussion is mainly here...so here I am. I simply want to do this right. I am ordering AT FP internals, an AP, and a JBR RMM all at the same time. I want to switch to e47 and get a tune put on the car. I have read of all the gunk that is flushed into the HPFP and such. Being as my car has under 14k miles on it, will this likely be an issue? I will still run a can of sea foam, but I would rather not have to pull and rebuild the FP to clean it. Sorry, I have been around a while, but this concept is still new to the forum and even more new to me. I am somewhat leery of this, but I will have someone competent tune it so that I don't fuck anything up. I have a local E station, although there is only one in the area. One of my concerns is that I may have to occasionally fill with 91 if I go on a trip or something....and I read that switching back and forth is bad (it didn't say if that was just 100% E back to 91 or if it's ok if just just mix. Don't hesitate to point me somewhere where all this is readily available...I'm just fine with reading, just haven't found exactly what I need yet. Game plan is as follows. Get parts next week. Install RMM, seafoam in tank and also seafoam motor at the same time since I will be due for an oil change. Install FP internals and marry AP, do maf cal. on next tank of fuel and start on an e-tune, get dyno tuned...plan for new tires? Is that pretty much how this all works? TL;DR;NCE: See 2 lines above ---^

Mixes typically don't have the problems we see with full E85, while still gaining a ton of power. I don't think you have much to worry about. I've switched back and forth between 93 and straight E85 numerous times without issue, so I'm not sure who's spreading that bad information

You pretty much have the process down - My process for E-Tuning mix cars is:

1) set up base map with scaled MAF curve for E85 and lots of other fun tweaks
2) MAF cal
3) POWA!!!!! from E-Tuning over a few revisions until street tuning becomes a liability.
4) Dyno time for more POWA!!!! safely

[2k4_8]

Originally Posted by phate Mixes typically don't have the problems we see with full E85, while still gaining a ton of power. I don't think you have much to worry about. I've switched back and forth between 93 and straight E85 numerous times without issue, so I'm not sure who's spreading that bad information You pretty much have the process down - My process for E-Tuning mix cars is: 1) set up base map with scaled MAF curve for E85 and lots of other fun tweaks 2) MAF cal 3) POWA!!!!! from E-Tuning over a few revisions until street tuning becomes a liability. 4) Dyno time for more POWA!!!! safely

Good, I am glad to know I am not running in blind...thanks for the response. I'll try to find that post or thread I read that on though.

[buckeyepost]

I want on the sauce too... reeeeal bad! I'm all itchy...

[Enki]

I think the itching has more to do with hygiene and less to do with corn.

Just sayin'.

[Cdone]

What is the max ppl have increased their timing? Right now I'm increased only 1degree. Obviously knock isn't an issue, but I want to make more power and have experience tuning for corn before, and was able to increase ten degrees on my ion redline/cobalt ss.

[Enki]

Um...Lol?

It's different every car. Either get an e-tune, pro tune or man up and find MBT yourself.

[Cdone]

Mbt? Manual boost tuning idk

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Cdone Mbt?

Mui big testicles.


Tapadatass

[Cdone]

^thought so..

[shadesofgray19]

Now that ATR has a scaler we should use that instead of adjusting MAF cal for E85 correct? I'm running equivalent E20 and changed and increased my MAF by 6%. I think I should undo that and just use the scalers.

[Speeden6]

well, i am slowly stepping into the E85 ring, figure ill go there before I go BT and see if it makes me happy.

Seafoamed a couple tanks (higher millage car) new HPFP internals (autotechs about a month old) and have a light tune. just started with 3 Gallons on top of 91 oct full tank to see what if anything it does for me.

any words of advice asside form above and waching fuel rail and pressures? should I ease into E85 by running it a couple times 3 gal to full tank or go straight 50/50? its more spendy out here than 91OCT and hard to get so i dont want to rely on full E85.

If i go 50/50 with VS 3gal to the tank what is the difference? really noticeable?

[kritz]

Yes, there will be a difference as long as the tune you will load has moar timing added like 18>19.5 degrees or so. The torque will spin your tires in 3rd with no effort at all and fourth is a monster. Enjoy

[silvapain]

We still don't have a ton of data with different mixes and mod combos, but it seems that big gains can be had up until about 50/50 or so, then the incremental benefits drop off. For example, the gains going from E50 to E85 aren't as big as going from E25 to E50.


Tapadatass

[NoTraction]

Soon I will Join the e85 Crew!!! After I donate though and make some moar MONEY

[sallyspeed3]

Just joined the wagon. Put in 4 gallons which should put me between E30 and E40? Bucker will be tuning me and I can't wait. I filled up 3 containers with 4 gallons each and got the blue sta-bil ethanol treatment. Should be set for about a month before I need to get some more.

[Speeden6]

just finished my first full take of E85 mix (only 3 gal to a full tank). put on a map that would give me some 2-3 KR readings and now i get barely a blirp of 0.3 or 0.7 which has to be just engine bay noise.

tomorrow i am filling her up again with 4 Gal of E85 first then throwing in the 91 OCT for the rest and going to a more aggressive map. then going to work out the kinks and go FMIC and 50/50 mix. i have no problem being a guinea pig if people want me to run logs on my MS6 and share. have 92K mils and Mods Below. im gonna break 300 AWHP before the summer is over on bolt ons and E85 if it kills me!

[phate]

Originally Posted by Speeden6 just finished my first full take of E85 mix (only 3 gal to a full tank). put on a map that would give me some 2-3 KR readings and now i get barely a blirp of 0.3 or 0.7 which has to be just engine bay noise. tomorrow i am filling her up again with 4 Gal of E85 first then throwing in the 91 OCT for the rest and going to a more aggressive map. then going to work out the kinks and go FMIC and 50/50 mix. i have no problem being a guinea pig if people want me to run logs on my MS6 and share. have 92K mils and Mods Below. im gonna break 300 AWHP before the summer is over on bolt ons and E85 if it kills me!

Bolt ons beyond intake and downpipe are a waste with a K04 on E85, once properly tuned. Just go 5050, tune, and call it a day.