GI: Guardian Angel (Overboost Protection)

[Lex]

Alright guys, this is a GI thread for the Guardian Angel. I need to know what my initial production batch number should be based on initial demand because these things are expensive to make and it takes a little while for the case to be manufactured.

There are a bunch of pictures and information here but I will summarize below: http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...02/index4.html

What is does:
- Prevents overboost conditions or acts as a methanol or other controller failsafe.
- It will prevent boot spikes due to cold weather, tuning issues.
- It will even prevent you overboosting if your WG line pops off.
- It has a built in trigger that can be used with meth controllers or other controllers. If the meth flow shuts off and the meth controller senses it, the device will trigger and cut your boost - usually below WG pressure.
- It is a much gentler cut than the fuel cut. The car will feel like it lost power, but you will still be able to keep your foot in it if you choose. This is NOT a fuel cut or ignition cut.
- Once you take your foot off the gas, the device resets automatically.
- The Guardian can be set to trigger at boost levels between 10-40psi.
- There is a warning LED that lights if the device is tripped. It also lights every time you turn on your car to show you it is working.

This will work with any boost controller, MBC, EBC, or stock. So if you're tuning, modifying the car, or doing any work with the boost system, as long as this device is installed properly it will save you from the dreaded overboost condition and likely bent rods.

What it works on:
- ANY turbocharged vehicle with a pull type/piston type BPV such as the stock one, Forge, Greddy, etc. It does not work with the HKS SSQV. If you have a BPV and want to know if it will work contact me.

Price
- $179

FIRST REVIEW HERE: http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...3/#post1302377

I currently have 7 left from a first batch. However these are mostly spoken for with just a few left over. What I need to know is how many of you would purchase one to know how large of an order to make next since it takes 4 weeks for things to be built.

[bigriver]

How is the install and de-mod (stock out for emissions check and dealer warranty visits)? If its not too bad, I'm down for one. Thanks Lex!

Edit: seems easy enough. I'm down!

[Lex]

Originally Posted by bigriver How is the install and de-mod (stock out for emissions check and dealer warranty visits)? If its not too bad, I'm down for one. Thanks Lex!

Install is very simple and I will post it here shortly. Basically, you need power and ground (add a fuse in the stock fuse panel and use the ground on fender where the battery grounds).

You also remove the BPV vacuum line, plug this line into the Guardian, and then plug the second port from the Guardian into the BPV.

The LED you can route into the the cabin without any modifications through the hood release cable passthrough.

So there are no modifications that are not reversible and it should take no more than 1 hour to install.

[HPFPUPGRADE]

Originally Posted by Lex Install is very simple and I will post it here shortly. Basically, you need power and ground (add a fuse in the stock fuse panel and use the ground on fender where the battery grounds). You also remove the BPV vacuum line, plug this line into the Guardian, and then plug the second port from the Guardian into the BPV. The LED you can route into the the cabin without any modifications through the hood release cable passthrough. So there are no modifications that are not reversible and it should take no more than 1 hour to install.

Any worries about potential over spinning the turbo with the BOV open while the turbo is still trying to target XX boost?

This also got me thinking about being on PCM controlled boost. If there is a leak and the system cannot see it, will the adaptive in the PCM continue to adjust to reach that target?

[Erich]

Originally Posted by HPFPUPGRADE Any worries about potential over spinning the turbo with the BOV open while the turbo is still trying to target XX boost?

Warning is already stated that it is not to be used as a boost controller.

[HPFPUPGRADE]

Originally Posted by Erich Warning is already stated that it is not to be used as a boost controller.

Thanks, so this would simply be for boost cut if over boost happened?

I only ask because I made something very similar to this for the SRT4 market and it killed several turbo's in a very short period of time, product never made it to market because of this.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by HPFPUPGRADE Any worries about potential over spinning the turbo with the BOV open while the turbo is still trying to target XX boost? This also got me thinking about being on PCM controlled boost. If there is a leak and the system cannot see it, will the adaptive in the PCM continue to adjust to reach that target?

This depends on how it is setup. If you are in load tuning mode and recirculating then it will still target load based on what the MAF sees regardless of whether the BPV is open or closed.

The ECU will always try and reach targets. This device is meant to save the motor from a catastrophic condition, not to be ridden on every day as a means to control boost.

The other thing to note is that once you're building less boost, you're generating less exhaust, and are naturally not going to spin the turbine as fast.

[HPFPUPGRADE]

Originally Posted by Lex This depends on how it is setup. If you are in load tuning mode and recirculating then it will still target load based on what the MAF sees regardless of whether the BPV is open or closed. The ECU will always try and reach targets. This device is meant to save the motor from a catastrophic condition, not to be ridden on every day as a means to control boost.

In boost tuning mode this could become a problem?

I am only commenting on this because you stated, "- It is a much gentler cut than the fuel cut. The car will feel like it lost power, but you will still be able to keep your foot in it if you choose. This is NOT a fuel cut or ignition cut."

Keeping your foot into the throttle with the BOV open could be catastrophic to the turbo, RPM's could potentially kill the turbo.

Other than that, its a great idea!

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by HPFPUPGRADE Any worries about potential over spinning the turbo with the BOV open while the turbo is still trying to target XX boost? This also got me thinking about being on PCM controlled boost. If there is a leak and the system cannot see it, will the adaptive in the PCM continue to adjust to reach that target?

If you see the logs you'll notice the charge air pipes are still pressurized even when the BPV opens. IM pressure remains at about 7-10 psi. I.e. there is still back pressure holding the compressor from overspining.

The engagement feels really gentle.

[starscream]

Lex done.. I am taking one.

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

Four weeks should be perfect for me to get back on my feet from the build. I'm in.

I use turbo smart 50/50. Let me know if that is an issue. Thanks.


Also, pff topic, you got your piston and rod, right? If I left out anything you needed, let me know, cuz I found more stuff as I've been assembling the motor.

[triplejumper18]

I'm down.

[Ferg]

i will buy one, just not at this moment. definitely interested in getting this before i start upping boost and what not.

[ak_spray]

Originally Posted by Ferg i will buy one, just not at this moment. definitely interested in getting this before i start upping boost and what not.

I'm with you. Don't need one now but will need one soon.

[rfinkle2]

Next in line. Thank you for putting this out Lex. Very handy to have.

I can think of a good example, right off of the top of my head... One of the best tuners (imo) and knowledgable guys on the forum, cld12pk2go had his vacuum cap slip off the bottom of his wg actuator when he was running the grimmspeed.

He hit something in the neighborhood of 28 psi (iirc)..(no boost cut from protective tables in atr, btw)
hyperlink to post here:
http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...tml#post982330


Moral of the story is that it can happen to anyone and the price of this device is WAY less than a rebuild.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Next in line. Thank you for putting this out Lex. Very handy to have. I can think of a good example, right off of the top of my head... One of the best tuners (imo) and knowledgable guys on the forum, cld12pk2go had his vacuum cap slip off the bottom of his wg actuator when he was running the grimmspeed. He hit something in the neighborhood of 28 psi (iirc)..(no boost cut from protective tables in atr, btw) hyperlink to post here: http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...tml#post982330 Moral of the story is that it can happen to anyone and the price of this device is WAY less than a rebuild.

There are a lot of classic examples out there:

This inspired me. Another experienced guy:
http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...27/#post797379

[starscream]

For me is more because I prefer to Load Tune over Boost Tune (Yeah FYBT) and with the weather having various extreme temps (well not too extreme recently in Ontario) I have been known to get spiking. I have been working more and more on the spikes, but it would be nice to have a backup safety just in case.

[darth_speeder]

i can see myself picking one of these up once i start upgrading. better safe then sorry.

[EL F00LI0]

I will most definitely take one. Will the install be an issue if I have my boost gauge tee'd into my bpv vac line?

Sent from my BlackBerry 9300 using Tapatalk

[Lex]

Originally Posted by EL F00LI0 I will most definitely take one. Will the install be an issue if I have my boost gauge tee'd into my bpv vac line? Sent from my BlackBerry 9300 using Tapatalk

Not at all.

[captain slow]

Fantastic idea. I prolly will not be in on the first few batches but this is something I will def purchase in the future.

[Erich]

I will take one. Can never have too much protection. I like to claim that is why I triple up condoms too, but really it is so I can last more then 2 pumps.

[Ziggo]

Fantastic product and idea. Put me down for one, I will help in the testing too if needed.


Zigatapatalka

[trf5000]

Lex,

You should sell this to mazda. Should be a factory option on this car haha.

I think you are crazy not to want this. $179 for motor insurance.

[wankular]

I will pick one up too. Not on this batch but probably the next one.

[Sid3wayS]

Definetly a good thing even for those that have basic mods and only starting to tune. $180 and an hour of work is worth peace of mind to me.

[charlesfist]

I may have missed it, but does it basically manipulate the pressure in the vacuum line to activate the BPV based on certain trigger conditions. I'm guessing its response time is pretty quick and has no relation to how much boost your are running or trying to bleed off in an over boost condition.

Also how easy is it to fine tune the boost set point potentiometer looking device. Least count around 1psi? hard to tell because of only 3 markings of 10, 25 and 40 psi.

Great work in making this safety system a reality Lex and great price point too.
Looks like the best insurance policy anyone could carry on their motor.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by charlesfist I may have missed it, but does it basically manipulate the pressure in the vacuum line to activate the BPV based on certain trigger conditions. I'm guessing its response time is pretty quick and has no relation to how much boost your are running or trying to bleed off in an over boost condition. Also how easy is it to fine tune the boost set point potentiometer looking device. Least count around 1psi? hard to tell because of only 3 markings of 10, 25 and 40 psi. Great work in making this safety system a reality Lex and great price point too. Looks like the best insurance policy anyone could carry on their motor.

This is correct. The response is fairly fast and it is the same regardless of the boost you are running.

The markings are there as guidelines. The potentiometer is "infinitely tunable" and the resolution is quite good but it would have been too busy to make lots of markings on the case. What I suggest is that you set this up through a couple of trial runs where your normal boost levels are just below the trigger point.

So essentially, install it, set it to 10psi, see how car responds so that you are not taken aback when/if it triggers. Then move the trigger point up until you are just over your normal boost levels.

Even if this triggers falsely (ie you set it too low), it is very easy to adjust up and the car will continue running just fine. It is not a violent cut so if you are passing a slower car you do not lose all power. I notice that on my setup, I settle around 9-10psi with it triggered and still going WOT.

Of course don't use this as a boost controller, the turbo would have to work unnecessarily hard.

[Ferg]

Originally Posted by Lex This is correct. The response is fairly fast and it is the same regardless of the boost you are running. The markings are there as guidelines. The potentiometer is "infinitely tunable" and the resolution is quite good but it would have been too busy to make lots of markings on the case. What I suggest is that you set this up through a couple of trial runs where your normal boost levels are just below the trigger point. So essentially, install it, set it to 10psi, see how car responds so that you are not taken aback when/if it triggers. Then move the trigger point up until you are just over your normal boost levels. Even if this triggers falsely (ie you set it too low), it is very easy to adjust up and the car will continue running just fine. It is not a violent cut so if you are passing a slower car you do not lose all power. I notice that on my setup, I settle around 9-10psi with it triggered and still going WOT. Of course don't use this as a boost controller, the turbo would have to work unnecessarily hard.

so to dumb this down alot. what you are saying is if im presently at 14-15psi. set this to 10, and do a run. after it sets off at 14-15 turn it up a lil and go again. keep my eye on the ap and my boost levels and just go from there. till about 19 or so, then leave it there. i have been known to spike to 19 under conditions and that would be about my safety net. or turn it down to 17/18 to keep from reaching 19. correct?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Ferg so to dumb this down alot. what you are saying is if im presently at 14-15psi. set this to 10, and do a run. after it sets off at 14-15 turn it up a lil and go again. keep my eye on the ap and my boost levels and just go from there. till about 19 or so, then leave it there. i have been known to spike to 19 under conditions and that would be about my safety net. or turn it down to 17/18 to keep from reaching 19. correct?

Think of this as the device that will stop a damaging boost spike. If you regularly spike to 19, I would set this to 21. An MS3 will not blow from a 19psi spike or a 21psi spike. Just set it a few psi the max level you usually see.

[Ferg]

gotcha lol

[daztdMS6]

I'm very interested on this product. Thank you for this thread Lex. Question, will there be maybe an opt for different colors for the Guardian Angel unit?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by daztdMS6 I'm very interested on this product. Thank you for this thread Lex. Question, will there be maybe an opt for different colors for the Guardian Angel unit?

Not for now due to volume ... but if these start selling the 100s across multiple platforms then it will certainly be.

[deadlandxtreme]

Will this be the 1st series price and then it will raise? Or will this be the set price point?

[Dano]

Lex,

I am def interested. So if my FS controller detect a WMI fault it can trigger the GA to open the BPV? badassness!

IIRC my Labonte sends a constant 5v signal until there is a fault. I would bet your looking for a 5v signal when there is a fault....If so I think an SPDT relay should resolve that as I do this for my in dash lights.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by deadlandxtreme Will this be the 1st series price and then it will raise? Or will this be the set price point?

Intent is to keep the price at this level.

Originally Posted by Dano Lex, I am def interested. So if my FS controller detect a WMI fault it can trigger the GA to open the BPV? badassness! IIRC my Labonte sends a constant 5v signal until there is a fault. I would bet your looking for a 5v signal when there is a fault....If so I think an SPDT relay should resolve that as I do this for my in dash lights.

Yes, this is correct. The signal has to be high - 3V and above to trigger so if your kit sets it to low then you will have to invert it yes.

[Dano]

yea the Labonte IFS-25 FS is totally backward from the IFS-10. It sends a constant 5 [or maybe 12v] signal UNTIL a fault is detected...kinda a double failsafe...if the FS is broken it will trip or if there is a fault it will trip.

in normal operation if you were looking for a signal to indicate fault and the FS was fried...well so would you be

[djuosnteisn]

What if we plan on running 50psi?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn What if we plan on running 50psi?

At 50psi, your balls are so large it doesn't matter if you blow. Because if you do, you take it like a boss and build the motor to take 100psi.

But in all seriousness in that case I would need to look at an 80 or 100psi sensor and the resolution would drop.

[captain slow]

This thing has to sell big time. Its just a matter of you getting this thing some visibility on all sorts of platforms. This thing is such a good idea I just cant believe this hasn't been a staple of building turbo cars as long as they've been around.